The hierarchy vibe is so real in the French workplace as is the famous " droit à la déconnexion". Try to get a new idea across or suggest a change during a meeting and see what happens :) If you’re lucky, you might get deadly stares, but you’re more likely to be politely told to stay in your place. I’ve always found it “safer” to float ideas over coffee rather than in front of the whole troupe. Definitely a skill to master!
That is correct. There is very little space for innovative, independent thinking in French corporations. Also, the style of management is extremely antique, even more ancient than in Germany and therefore (in my view) highly inefficient. I found the atmosphere quite different and refreshing among freelancers and startups. Unfortunately, being freelance is rare and even I would say badly seen in the society. The society is highly hierarchical as you noted!
Hi, sorry my fellow countrymen were so rude and unwelcoming to you! I have an American friend who described the relationship differences between America and Europe as the "peach coconut conundrum". He explained that in America, people feel warm and welcoming on the outside but it's actually really hard to build a long lasting relationship, whereas in Europe, it's really hard to get in but once you're in, you're good. Your essay gave me a new perspective on my culture, thank you for sharing that! I think we should all strive to be more mindful on how we welcome someone into our space :) can I ask if all your interactions were in French or English? Generally speaking, we're a country that's not so good at speaking English, so people usually shy away from conversation because they're awkward (and make the other person feel inadequate in the same stride lol). Thank you again!
Non, je fais un effort de toujours parler français, mais avec pleine d’erreurs. Après, c’est très possible que les fautes de prononciacion ont contribué à l’incompréhension. Maintenant, c’est moi qui est désolé, parce que tu es désolé. Je trouve ces situationes drôles. J’habite toujours en France, avec pleine d’amis 🙃
Contente de savoir que tu as réussi à te frayer un chemin ! On est un peu sauvage en France mais quand on insiste un peu, certains d'entre nous peuvent être des amis de grande qualité !
Social introductions in France are everything. I was quite lucky moving here in 2010 and having a French partner who introduced me to entire worlds I'd never discover otherwise. This is the first major shock that comes to a lot of foreigners, and especially folks from the USA, who tend to walk in anywhere in the world as if they knew the owner of the place (being a US citizen, I must confess it). "Ca ne se fait pas" is a standard phrase in France, which translates basically do "yo, don't do that." It's a cultural more like all cultures have them, but in France, interiority is valued over sociability, at least at first. Given the history of various occupiers and tribal regions and religious disputes, after 17 years in this country, I've certainly learned that it's best to learn the social rules so that you can then break them, because much of French humor is about subverting the cultural order
This was fascinating, and I've never experienced anything quite like this in all my travels. I actually spent a couple of weeks in Montpellier back in 2004, but I was staying at a hostel and only really interacted with fellow travellers and a handful of locals in cafes or bars.
I did have a funny kiss misunderstanding, but it was a Swedish woman in Scotland - we both got confused over how many kisses to give (we were just friends, not very close) after we hadn't seen each other for a bit, and our lips ended up meeting (and it was kind of nice, tbh!)
when asked "how many times?" which is not an uncommon question in France, given that the number of kisses differ by region - I tend to casually answer that I am a foreigner and where I come from, we kiss seven times, and with a real hug, not a fake one. Sometimes it works.
Hahaha.... "Pablo The Barbarian"... It must be very difficult to interact with "normal" people when you have the best food, manners, art, language, history etc.
Ha ha, it is really a bit funny, because they tend to be the most liberal society in Europe, but in fact they are more than conservative one 🙃 next time, bring them link to this article, leave it on a table, where they are sitting around, and walk away without expecting anything 😉 then the level of confusion will be even higher, and this is maybe the only way to pop that weird balloon 👌 good luck there or come back to Poland ✌️
Leszek, but so do you think us, Poles, are more socially advanced in the art of introduction?
An image from last year comes to my memory… In a Polish small town, a Saturday afternoon “festyn” (local festival). A group of people, obviously friends and acquaintances , sit tucked to each other on a long wooden bench. Men and women. A man arrives and approaches them to say hello. He says hello to the first man and shakes his hand. Then another hello and handshake to the second man. Third in row is a woman. No hello, no handshake. She simply gets skipped like she was air. Fourth is a man: hello, hand shake. Fifth is a woman again: no hello, no handshake. And so it goes, until he completes the row…
Maybe I need to write another story one day, of which the French will laugh and the Polish will say that this is NOT true… 🙃🙃🙃
Or your coworkers were just rude. I'm French, and introducing yourself when you meet stranger is just basic politeness wherever you go.
The hierarchy vibe is so real in the French workplace as is the famous " droit à la déconnexion". Try to get a new idea across or suggest a change during a meeting and see what happens :) If you’re lucky, you might get deadly stares, but you’re more likely to be politely told to stay in your place. I’ve always found it “safer” to float ideas over coffee rather than in front of the whole troupe. Definitely a skill to master!
That is correct. There is very little space for innovative, independent thinking in French corporations. Also, the style of management is extremely antique, even more ancient than in Germany and therefore (in my view) highly inefficient. I found the atmosphere quite different and refreshing among freelancers and startups. Unfortunately, being freelance is rare and even I would say badly seen in the society. The society is highly hierarchical as you noted!
Hi, sorry my fellow countrymen were so rude and unwelcoming to you! I have an American friend who described the relationship differences between America and Europe as the "peach coconut conundrum". He explained that in America, people feel warm and welcoming on the outside but it's actually really hard to build a long lasting relationship, whereas in Europe, it's really hard to get in but once you're in, you're good. Your essay gave me a new perspective on my culture, thank you for sharing that! I think we should all strive to be more mindful on how we welcome someone into our space :) can I ask if all your interactions were in French or English? Generally speaking, we're a country that's not so good at speaking English, so people usually shy away from conversation because they're awkward (and make the other person feel inadequate in the same stride lol). Thank you again!
Non, je fais un effort de toujours parler français, mais avec pleine d’erreurs. Après, c’est très possible que les fautes de prononciacion ont contribué à l’incompréhension. Maintenant, c’est moi qui est désolé, parce que tu es désolé. Je trouve ces situationes drôles. J’habite toujours en France, avec pleine d’amis 🙃
Contente de savoir que tu as réussi à te frayer un chemin ! On est un peu sauvage en France mais quand on insiste un peu, certains d'entre nous peuvent être des amis de grande qualité !
Social introductions in France are everything. I was quite lucky moving here in 2010 and having a French partner who introduced me to entire worlds I'd never discover otherwise. This is the first major shock that comes to a lot of foreigners, and especially folks from the USA, who tend to walk in anywhere in the world as if they knew the owner of the place (being a US citizen, I must confess it). "Ca ne se fait pas" is a standard phrase in France, which translates basically do "yo, don't do that." It's a cultural more like all cultures have them, but in France, interiority is valued over sociability, at least at first. Given the history of various occupiers and tribal regions and religious disputes, after 17 years in this country, I've certainly learned that it's best to learn the social rules so that you can then break them, because much of French humor is about subverting the cultural order
This was fascinating, and I've never experienced anything quite like this in all my travels. I actually spent a couple of weeks in Montpellier back in 2004, but I was staying at a hostel and only really interacted with fellow travellers and a handful of locals in cafes or bars.
I did have a funny kiss misunderstanding, but it was a Swedish woman in Scotland - we both got confused over how many kisses to give (we were just friends, not very close) after we hadn't seen each other for a bit, and our lips ended up meeting (and it was kind of nice, tbh!)
when asked "how many times?" which is not an uncommon question in France, given that the number of kisses differ by region - I tend to casually answer that I am a foreigner and where I come from, we kiss seven times, and with a real hug, not a fake one. Sometimes it works.
It’s a closed, low trust culture (this is documented in a few books ).
In my experience the key is:
Don’t smile
Stare
Offer limited info about yourself
Don’t compliment them
It weirdly works at least in my experience in social settings. 🤷🏻♀️
Hahaha.... "Pablo The Barbarian"... It must be very difficult to interact with "normal" people when you have the best food, manners, art, language, history etc.
Ha ha, it is really a bit funny, because they tend to be the most liberal society in Europe, but in fact they are more than conservative one 🙃 next time, bring them link to this article, leave it on a table, where they are sitting around, and walk away without expecting anything 😉 then the level of confusion will be even higher, and this is maybe the only way to pop that weird balloon 👌 good luck there or come back to Poland ✌️
Leszek, but so do you think us, Poles, are more socially advanced in the art of introduction?
An image from last year comes to my memory… In a Polish small town, a Saturday afternoon “festyn” (local festival). A group of people, obviously friends and acquaintances , sit tucked to each other on a long wooden bench. Men and women. A man arrives and approaches them to say hello. He says hello to the first man and shakes his hand. Then another hello and handshake to the second man. Third in row is a woman. No hello, no handshake. She simply gets skipped like she was air. Fourth is a man: hello, hand shake. Fifth is a woman again: no hello, no handshake. And so it goes, until he completes the row…
Maybe I need to write another story one day, of which the French will laugh and the Polish will say that this is NOT true… 🙃🙃🙃